Raptorific
everybody knows me, my name dan
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those anons are going insane..... sending good and positive vibes to compensate: 💗
Asked by Anonymous
All this time Tumblr users spend on AO3 and they still tragically have not learned to read
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Question reblogged from Raptorific
fujoshis are homophobic ❤️
Asked by Anonymous
Are you stupid?
For clarity:
If what you mean to say is not “every woman who likes any M/M content at all” then Fujoshi is not the correct word.
Are you saying that the mere act of, as a woman, liking a gay book, comic, or movie is homophobic? Any woman who likes the movie Moonlight or Brokeback Mountain or that Pirate show everyone keeps trying to force me to give a shit about is homophobic? I don’t think you are, because that would be ridiculous! But all of those women are included under the term “Fujoshi!”
If you’re trying to talk specifically about homophobic women, fetishizing women, etc, then use words that actually mean those things, and then maybe we can have a conversation about it.
But saying “Fujoshi are homophobic” is sorta like saying “USAmericans are Minnesotans” and then defending it by insisting that you’ve only ever heard the word “USAmerican” to refer to people from Minnesota, and that actually everybody from any other state must be categorically something other than USAmerican because they aren’t from Minnesota
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also “yaoi” started out as a porn term. yaoi is an acronym of the phrase yama nashi, ochi nashi, imi nashi, roughly translating to “no climax, no fall, no meaning” and referring to how the genre emphasizes sex, not romance. you dont know shit, idiot
Asked by Anonymous
Does that explain why the situations described in the post, with a discussion happening in english choose to use a Japanese term for the Porny Stuff and not the well known English acronym for the same thing, PWP? It’s almost like there’s a racist association between Asian Cultures and Sexual Deviance in western fandom and the way they use Japanese terms! Somebody should maybe make a post about that!
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Post reblogged from Just Existing I guess
I’m probably gonna get yelled at for saying this but sometimes something isn’t a real problem in fandom, you just learned a Japanese word describing a general fandom practice and got scared and decided it meant “The Bad Ones” of that practice
Whenever you see someone being like “we don’t mind when women enjoy or even create m/m content, we just hate fujoshis” you are being racist. If you mean “I hate the way some female fans treat gay men like fetish objects” then say that, and we can have a conversation based on that, but “fujoshi” is, I cannot stress this enough, just a word for any woman who likes M/M content, for better or worse. It may have started out as a reclaimed insult (by the way, the insult was based on “liking gay shit makes you perverted and sinful,” not “please respect the humanity of gay men”) but it does not make a distinction between The Good Ones and The Bad Ones. You just decided to No True Scotsman it and that the English word for that should describe The Good Ones and the Japanese word for it should describe The Bad Ones
Same goes for the people I saw just the other day whose discord server explicitly disallowed “Yaoi” but said that M/M content was allowed. What they meant was “M/M content is allowed as long as it isn’t pornographic and fetishistic.” What they actually said was “M/M content is allowed, but M/M content is strictly forbidden,” and expected you to understand that the Japan-Adjacent term has porn/fetish connotations while the English-language term for THE SAME THING refers to the “normal, non-perverted” version.
It’d be like if you used the word “cartoons” to refer to all Family-Friendly animation, regardless of style or country of origin, whether it’s Japanese or American or French or whatever, and used the term “anime” to refer to all animated pornography regardless of style or country of origin. There’s plenty of animated pornography that isn’t Japanese! There’s plenty of anime that’s not pornographic! But this is the sort of thing you do when you say shit like “obviously women can read stories about gay men, but NO FUJOSHIS”
THANK YOU
i don’t do fandom these days—in large part because so many people can’t behave and do shit like this—but anti-asian racism AND sex negativity has surged high in original m/m comics and literature too and it’s super creepy to see coming from self-professed progressives
I… really want to agree with this. And I do agree with 99% of it. That server was absolutely fucked up to say M/M was allowed but yaoi wasn’t. And anti-asian racism is a common problem in fandom.
My only issue with this post is the part about the term fujoshi. The term is/was a derogatory pun term. It literally means “rotten girl”/“fermented woman”. Its been reclaimed by many people at this point and been a major source of contention and discourse for years because of that. But the origin of the term was literally meant to be a derogatory term for girls who are obsessed with M/M relationships. I don’t think we can really lump that specific term in with the rest of the racist terminology in the same way when the term was made in Japan to be a derogatory term to begin with.
- The terminology is not racist! Using the terms Yaoi and Fujoshi etc is not racist! It is specifically the use of a foreign-language word as a shorthand for negative connotations that is racist.
- Yes, the word “Fujoshi” did start out as a derogatory word. For any and all women who liked M/M content. If somebody is using it to describe ALL women who like ANY M/M content, they’re using it correctly. If they’re saying it about all women who love M/M content as an insult, they’re using it correctly in a homophobic way. If they’re doing it to reclaim the insult, then they’re using it correctly in a tongue-in-cheek way. If they’re using the word “Fujoshi” to specifically mean “women who fetishize gay men, as opposed to women who like stories about gay men in an appropriate way, who are just called slash shippers,” then they’re being racist. It’s really not that difficult to understand that saying “she likes slash ships” in English means that she’s Normal and “she likes slash ships but in like a JAPANESE way” means she’s a fetishizing pervert is racist.
- The original term, in its original real meaning of “any woman who likes any M/M stuff,” is meant to be derogatory towards women and towards gay men. This is a conversation about how western fandoms will insist that a Japanese term for a pretty universal phenomenon actually specifically only means the bad apples in the bunch. It’d be like if your word for a law-abiding cowboy was “Cowboy” and your word for an outlaw cowboy, regardless of their ethnicity, native language, or country of origin, was always “Bandito.” In that situation, does is matter that Bandito, in Spanish, actually DOES refer to criminals? Or is it more about when and how you choose to employ a word in a language you otherwise are not speaking?
Point 1 you made: I never meant to imply using the terms themselves was racist. Sorry if it came across that way. I was in agreement that taking a general term from another language and making it mean “the bad ones” of a group is racist af. Sorry about the confusion there!
Point 2 you made: I have 2 responses to this part.
1:
Yes, the word “Fujoshi” did start out as a derogatory word. For any and all women who liked M/M content.
My understanding of the term is that it wasn’t just any and all women who liked M/M content. The original pun was to take the term for a married woman, and replace the character for married, for a homophonic character that meant rotten/spoiled/fermented. It was to refer to women who were “spoiled” for marriage because of their interest in M/M content.
There are a few interpretations that could have. It could mean the girls who are fetishising M/M relationships and generally being creepy and that’s what makes them unfit for marriage, or it could be a wildly homophobic term saying any interest in M/M relationships makes a woman unfit for marriage. The latter of which somewhat implies that Japan in general is just wildly homophobic, which feels like a racist thing to say about a country?
And 2:
If they’re using the word “Fujoshi” to specifically mean “women who fetishize gay men, as opposed to women who like stories about gay men in an appropriate way, who are just called slash shippers,” then they’re being racist. It’s really not that difficult to understand that saying “she likes slash ships” in English means that she’s Normal and “she likes slash ships but in like a JAPANESE way” means she’s a fetishizing pervert is racist.
I think we may have different experiences with this term. My experience with how people use the term fujoshi has been either people reclaiming the term (and often its been people who were actually fetishizing gay men and were actively homophobic that Ive seen ‘reclaiming’ it but there have been some who weren’t that I’ve seen too), or it was people saying something along the lines of “fujoshis/people who fetishize gay men xyz”. (With the occasional use of just fujoshi as shorthand for women who fetishize gay men). Ive never come across someone who made a distinction where they said something along the lines of “girls who are slash shippers are fine but fujoshis are not”. The idea of saying it that way, yeah that sounds wildly racist. Ive just… never once come across that before. Its always been people who had learned “'fujoshi’ is the Japanese term for 'girls who are creepy and fetishizers of gay men’ and they often self-describe themselves with that term but don’t readily recognise that they are being creepy/fetishizing” using the term in that kind of context, without a comparison to a non-japanese term as “the good ones”. The closest to that Ive seen was one time where I saw a comparison that had the “good ones” as “yaoi fans” and “the bad ones” as “fujoshis” which… both use a japanese term though the one technically has english in it.
So idk what the resolution to that is because we have apparently had pretty different experiences with the term, and also apparently interpret the original meaning in a different way since you somehow think
If they’re saying it about all women who love M/M content as an insult, they’re using it correctly in a homophobic way.
isn’t a racist conclusion in itself.
Your 3rd point is just reiterating your 2nd point again.
I don’t know what to tell you about this one if you think “there are homophobes in Japan and sometimes they come up with words” is a racist conclusion. Some of the people in Japan have shitty backwards views, just like some of the people in literally any country.
As for the original intent of the word, it’s not a matter of opinion or a subject of debate. It’s a wildly homophobic term saying that if women enjoy gay content, in any way, at all, it makes them unfit for marriage. It is documented, it is objectively true, that the term was originally used because the people— People as in the actual individuals, not People as in the culture of origin— who came up with the word were saying they hated gay people. They were, empirically, NOT trying to Protect Gay Men From Fetishizers and making fair criticisms about women behaving inappropriately. They were explicitly saying “no man will ever want a woman who likes that perverted gay shit, and of course a husband should be the ultimate goal for all women.” None of the wildly misogynist and homophobic nerds who invented the term gave a shit about making sure gay men were treated with respect. They were mad at those women, in fact, for being TOO RESPECTFUL by reacting with an emotion other than Disgust.
This DOCUMENTED FACT isn’t making a statement about Japan writ large and its views on gay people or women. It is making a statement about Homophobes and Misogynists, and yes, I’m sorry to burst your Noble Savage bubble, there’s as many of those in Japan as there are anywhere else, and they, like Fandom Participators everywhere, love coming up with words for stuff in the language they speak.
And a big part of your response is about how you’ve never come across the phenomenon I’m describing before. That’s super great for you, the main character of the internet, but I know I’VE sure seen it enough times to make a post about it!
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How dare you say we piss on the poor
Asked by Anonymous
I feel like you guys think I have more fun with these messages than I do
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You're a fujoshi, aren't you?
Fr tho, everything is racist to you morons. Talk to actual people instead of assuming people are deeply offended by some nonsense like hating fujoshis.
Asked by Anonymous
I’m a man, dumbass. Good to know, though, that the people pretending to “protect MLM” from the dirty scary…. women reading romance novels….. will go FULL “conservative uncle complaining that everything is racist these days” when one of the men they’re “protecting” calls them idiots
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Post reblogged from Just Existing I guess
I’m probably gonna get yelled at for saying this but sometimes something isn’t a real problem in fandom, you just learned a Japanese word describing a general fandom practice and got scared and decided it meant “The Bad Ones” of that practice
Whenever you see someone being like “we don’t mind when women enjoy or even create m/m content, we just hate fujoshis” you are being racist. If you mean “I hate the way some female fans treat gay men like fetish objects” then say that, and we can have a conversation based on that, but “fujoshi” is, I cannot stress this enough, just a word for any woman who likes M/M content, for better or worse. It may have started out as a reclaimed insult (by the way, the insult was based on “liking gay shit makes you perverted and sinful,” not “please respect the humanity of gay men”) but it does not make a distinction between The Good Ones and The Bad Ones. You just decided to No True Scotsman it and that the English word for that should describe The Good Ones and the Japanese word for it should describe The Bad Ones
Same goes for the people I saw just the other day whose discord server explicitly disallowed “Yaoi” but said that M/M content was allowed. What they meant was “M/M content is allowed as long as it isn’t pornographic and fetishistic.” What they actually said was “M/M content is allowed, but M/M content is strictly forbidden,” and expected you to understand that the Japan-Adjacent term has porn/fetish connotations while the English-language term for THE SAME THING refers to the “normal, non-perverted” version.
It’d be like if you used the word “cartoons” to refer to all Family-Friendly animation, regardless of style or country of origin, whether it’s Japanese or American or French or whatever, and used the term “anime” to refer to all animated pornography regardless of style or country of origin. There’s plenty of animated pornography that isn’t Japanese! There’s plenty of anime that’s not pornographic! But this is the sort of thing you do when you say shit like “obviously women can read stories about gay men, but NO FUJOSHIS”
THANK YOU
i don’t do fandom these days—in large part because so many people can’t behave and do shit like this—but anti-asian racism AND sex negativity has surged high in original m/m comics and literature too and it’s super creepy to see coming from self-professed progressives
I… really want to agree with this. And I do agree with 99% of it. That server was absolutely fucked up to say M/M was allowed but yaoi wasn’t. And anti-asian racism is a common problem in fandom.
My only issue with this post is the part about the term fujoshi. The term is/was a derogatory pun term. It literally means “rotten girl”/“fermented woman”. Its been reclaimed by many people at this point and been a major source of contention and discourse for years because of that. But the origin of the term was literally meant to be a derogatory term for girls who are obsessed with M/M relationships. I don’t think we can really lump that specific term in with the rest of the racist terminology in the same way when the term was made in Japan to be a derogatory term to begin with.
- The terminology is not racist! Using the terms Yaoi and Fujoshi etc is not racist! It is specifically the use of a foreign-language word as a shorthand for negative connotations that is racist.
- Yes, the word “Fujoshi” did start out as a derogatory word. For any and all women who liked M/M content. If somebody is using it to describe ALL women who like ANY M/M content, they’re using it correctly. If they’re saying it about all women who love M/M content as an insult, they’re using it correctly in a homophobic way. If they’re doing it to reclaim the insult, then they’re using it correctly in a tongue-in-cheek way. If they’re using the word “Fujoshi” to specifically mean “women who fetishize gay men, as opposed to women who like stories about gay men in an appropriate way, who are just called slash shippers,” then they’re being racist. It’s really not that difficult to understand that saying “she likes slash ships” in English means that she’s Normal and “she likes slash ships but in like a JAPANESE way” means she’s a fetishizing pervert is racist.
- The original term, in its original real meaning of “any woman who likes any M/M stuff,” is meant to be derogatory towards women and towards gay men. This is a conversation about how western fandoms will insist that a Japanese term for a pretty universal phenomenon actually specifically only means the bad apples in the bunch. It’d be like if your word for a law-abiding cowboy was “Cowboy” and your word for an outlaw cowboy, regardless of their ethnicity, native language, or country of origin, was always “Bandito.” In that situation, does is matter that Bandito, in Spanish, actually DOES refer to criminals? Or is it more about when and how you choose to employ a word in a language you otherwise are not speaking?
